The Ethel Raff Family

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Subject:  Your message re Langsam
PostedDate:  04/05/99 10:34:00 PM
SendTo:  CN=Moishe Miller/OU=PSG/O=Prudential
DeliveredDate:  04/05/99 10:26:59 PM

Dear Moishe

How clever to try all those email addresses and succeed in getting through
to me.

I have had a look at your website and I was extremely impressed.  My only
information on Langsam comes from the family tree  put together by Susan
Wynne et al.  But, while it is very broad reaching, I found yours easier to
follow  obviously because of its narrowness but also because there is more
detail. For the first time I was able easily to go straight back to Pesach
through Chaim Lieb.

 My grandmother was Cila Raff,  her mother was Ethel Fish,  Ethels father
was Mendel  Fish who was  Miriam Langsam's son,

My grandmother had a number of siblings. Some of whom are in the Fish and
the Langsam.Spira  family tree. However her father married twice and there
were other siblings from the second marriage whose names we do not know.
Cila had a brother who ended up in the USA . His name mayhave been Martin

This is all very exciting and I shall keep watching your pages for more

Incidentally, despite my Irish name, I am a sabra born in Haifa in 1943 but
lived most of my life in Australia.

I am writing a novel at the moment and part of it is  set in the forests of
easter Poland  during World War II. As you probably know there were a
number of Jewish partisan camps and if you know of anybody who would help
me with experiences of this time and place - I would  be extremely

Kind regards
Eileen Naseby

From: Eileen Naseby <>
To: '' <>
Cc: '' <>
Subject: RE: Langsam Family
Date: Tuesday, January 04, 2000 12:33 AM

Thanks for this Moishe

My info at this stage  has been the Langsam family tree. I went to Poland 
in October ( a long way from Sydney) and visited Dynov where my grandmother 
was born. The Jewish cemetries were, of course, empty of headstones. Yet it 
was a very moving experience. I intend to go back to do some further 
research so maybe  I will come up with further information when I  have 
more time. I  am writing a novel which is totally fiction but the 
characters are loosely based on my mother and grandmother. So because the 
novel  research was my main purpose in going to Poland ( and then to 
Jerusalem) I had little time for things of a genealogical nature.

According to yours and Susanne's family tree the following is my lineage

Pesach Langsam
Chaim Leib
Miriam Langsam
Mendel Fish
Ethel Fish - Hirsch Raff
Cila  Raff - Solomon Singer
Ursula Singer - Anthony Piercy
Eileen Piercy - David  Naseby
Nigel and Toby Naseby

My mother, Ursula's, second marriage to Nigel Hall produced five children
Diana, Charmian, Stephen, Naomi, Michael

I can see this all could become very addictive
Cheers and Happy New Year
Eileen Naseby

-----Original Message-----
From: []
Sent:	Saturday, 1 January 2000 7:33
To:; naomi-g@MSN.COM;;;;;;
Subject:	Langsam Family

All of us are researching the Langsam family. I have a website at
which some of you have seen.
I would appreciate any feedback, insight, additional info that you can
supply to supplement the site as well as connect us more firmly together.
-Moishe Miller

PS: Please note my new email address.

From: "Debbie Raff"  
Subject: Re: The Importance of the JewishGen Family Finder 
Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2000 11:29:10 -0800 
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You are on the right track.  My grandfather's 1st cousin was Abraham RAFF
(watchmaker) and his father was Hirsh Raff.  He last lived in Prsymersyl
(excuse spelling - too lazy to look it up). Eileen told me that good old
Hersh RAFF was married twice, but knows nothing of the first marriage.

I made contact with my dad's first cousin a couple of year's ago.  In our
phone conversation, he mentioned that my grandfather had told him that the
RAFFs were once known as FISH/FISCH.  The story made no sense, and I decided
the whole thing was pretty 'fishy'.  I than chanced on this Ethel FISH RAFF,
and the story seemed to have more credence.  I now think that maybe this
Abraham RAFF, not my grandfather, told the cousin that story.  I guess it
turned out to be true, but I don't think for my branch of the family.  My
RAFFs were associated with the SICHERMAN name.

According to Eilenn Naseby of Australia at , many of
her relatives were watchmakers, also.  She has a Bukowsko connection, so I
figured there must be a relationship of some type.  I didn't see her family
tree, until I met her in L.A.  Her RAFF branch seems to have made a pitstop
in Israel before immigrating to Australia.  She was born in Palestine.

So, it looks like you have a new email address to add.  Eileen is a real
interesting person.  She was to have completed her first novel in January,
which is loosely based on her grandmother.  She was not brought up in a
religious home and her sister and her mom seem to have become members of the
Bahai faith.  I don't know if she has ever been in a synagogue.  She owns a
film company, which rents historical video footage to film productions, etc.
Debbie "A watched clock never boils!"
-----Original Message-----
To: Debbie Raff 
Date: Monday, January 17, 2000 8:58 AM
Subject: Re: The Importance of the JewishGen Family Finder

>Actually, your note made perfect sense. Don't be fooled by my website,
>there are plenty of holes anyhow. In fact, if you look through, you will
>see that I had a g-g-g-uncle from Bukowsko, named Shabsi Yitzchok Miller
>(1830's - 1894), who had ten kids.
>Getting back to your Australian "RAFF" related to Langsam, do you have an
>email ID for her? From Suzan's book, I am guessing this cousin is from
>Ethel & Hirsch RAFF?
>Do you know of any other Langsam's?
>-Good Luck!
>At 06:56 PM 1/16/00 -0800, you wrote:
>>Unfortunately, I am not related to the LANGSAM family, 'although' I met
>>an Australian "RAFF", who is related to the LANGSAM family through the
>>surname "FISH".  We had been corresponding, and it turned out that she
>>stopped in L.A. for 2 days on her way to the U.K., and eventually Poland.
>>She took out her family tree pages, which may have been compiled by Suzan
>>Wynne??  We finally realized that my grandfather's 1st cousin, who I knew
>>"Uncle" Abe in NY, appeared to be her grandmother's brother, who went off
>>America! The name of the missing brother seemed to be lost to history at
>>their end, yet my "Uncle" Abe's father and her grandmother's father both
>>the same first name.  I am following me, but I don't know that this
>>makes any sense to the outside world.
>>I have run across your website before and only wish my family tree were as
>>complete.  Although my surname is RAFF (and I always felt that it was
>>because we had a Rabbi in the family), I have not been able to locate that
>>Rabbi, yet!
>>In reality, my grandfather came from the small town of Bukowsko, which is
>>near Sanok. I, also, found my surname in the Sanok Yizkor book related to
>>the surname SCHNEEBAUM, I believe.  But have gotten nowhere going down
>>Debbie RAFF
>>California, where it rained today!
>>-----Original Message-----
>>To: Debbie Raff 
>>Date: Sunday, January 16, 2000 6:39 PM
>>Subject: Re: The Importance of the JewishGen Family Finder
>> >Hi,
>> >Since you mention your own connection to Sanok, I was wondering if any
>> >your OWN family had a connection to the Langsam. They had a large
>> >in that basic geographical area.
>> >-Moishe Miller
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >At 11:47 AM 1/16/00 -0800, you wrote:
>> >>Yesterday, I found myself checking entries for the JewishGen Family
>> >>for the town of Sanok.  Although not a plan, I began emailing people,
>> >>had a surname listed in the index of the Polish book I have on the
>> >>of Sanok. (This is not the Yizkor book)  In fact, had this actually
>> >>been well thought-out, I would have sat in a more comfortable chair.
>> >>
>> >>Anyway, I woke up this morning to 2 requests to search this book for
>> >>surnames.  Not a problem, but since both of these people had surnames
>> >>book, theoretically, I should have emailed them with the information,
>> >>yesterday. In fact, if everyone has listed and updated their
>> >>should be getting no more requests. Either, these people are listed on
>> >>JGFF without an email address or they have not listed these surnames
>> >>JGFF.  In a sense, they have become the missing link!
>> >>
>> >>So, if you have 'inherited' some new surnames, recently, and haven't
>> >>around to updating the info., or are new to genealogy ~~please take the
>> >>to input your information into the "Family Finder" at
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>After all, there may be another researcher out there, who is a glutton
>> >>punishment (vbg) like me, who would have contacted you, but your bit of
>> >>information did not exist and you may never connect.
>> >>
>> >>Debbie Raff
>> >>California
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>Family from or nearby Lviv?  Let JewishGen ShtetlSchleppers take you
>> >>
>> >>---
>> >>The Gesher Galicia Discussion Group ( is
>>hosted by
>> >>         JewishGen: The Home of Jewish Genealogy
>> >>    Visit our home page at
>> >>
>> >>You are currently subscribed to galicia as: []
>> >>
>> >>To unsubscribe send email to
>> >
>> >
From: "Debbie Raff"  
Subject: Just thought I would say, "Hi!" 
Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2001 18:50:25 -0700 
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400
I happened upon your site tonight, and found our ongoing "conversation".  I found 
it pretty strange, actually, to be reading all of this.  One of those "Twilight 
Zone" moments.  I still wish I could figure out my connection to the grand scheme 
of the Langsam world.  I did note that I mentioned that my grandfather's cousin, 
Abraham RAFFs father was named Hersch, yet as I now recall, I think I settled on 
Henoch in the end.  So, my prior info. that he may be the "lost" brother to Eileen, 
the Aussie's grandmother, may or may not be the case.  Eileen was to ask some 
questions on this matter after our L.A. meeting, but I don't know if this ever 
Anyway, I just thought I would touch base.  BTW, will you be going to London?  If 
so, let me know, and I will be on the look-out for you.  I did go to the Boston 
convention years ago, and always had the intention of going to others, but my summer 
vacations seemed to get in the way.  

Debbie ~
  "Ms Raff's Cyber-Classroom"

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I would be very interested to hear from anyone with knowledge or an interest in the Miller family.

Moishe Miller

My home address is
           1374 East 28th Street
           Brooklyn NY 11210-5311

Last updated 8/27/01